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Rear tyre - kalamunda trails


pembo6's picture

By pembo6 - Posted on 13 June 2014

NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.

I need a new rear tyre. I have worn out my racing Ralph. Was never really happy with it. I found it slipped a bit much , especially when riding up hills.

Any other suggestions for an AM type rear tyre.a bit more grippy but not too heavy. And what width.

I'm riding a 26" dual suspension. Mainly in the Perth hills.

Thanks.

Ps. I have a nobby nic front. 2.25 wide. Brand new and happy with it.

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bluray's picture

Have you tried the Nobby nic on the rear?It rolls almost as good as the Racing Ralph & i find has a lot more grip.

pembo6's picture

Yeah. I was wondering how a NN would go at the back.
Was thinking that or a maxxis high roller. Or maybe ardent. Or the Hans Dampf (spelling??).
In around a 2.3 width.

jeremya's picture

I think it depends where you ride. On hard surfaces the nobs on nobby nic's will destroy themselves. On the front they seem OK but with the extra weight on the back they suffer. I think they may be OK on softer surfaces

Greggo's picture

Check out the Bontrager XR4 Team Issue. They're a good size tyre at a reasonable weight as well as being hard wearing. Have a chat with Mark at Freewheel Cycles in Cannington he should be able to help you out.

Hackasaurus's picture

I have the Bontrager XR3 in 2.3 front and XR2 in 2.2 rear (both Team Issue) on my 26" hardtail and it is a great combo for me. The XR3 in the larger size is heavier than the slightly narrower XR2, but the extra grip at the front with the larger knobs and more aggressive pattern is worth it.

The XR2 rolls really well and offers good grip for most of its life. My rear is at the point where it still has enough meat on it to seem wasteful to replace it, but it is starting to slip in some more difficult climbs. Seems to be because the leading edge has worn off the centre knobs.

I am a very clumsy rider so a tough set of tyres is essential and I am constantly amazed at the punishment the Team Issue version will take with not so much as a mark on the sidewall. I will definitely buy these again.

The XR4 is a very chunky tyre and is best suited to loose, muddy or stony terrain. That's as a front tyre. Too heavy and too slow on the rear IMHO. In a 2.3 it may also give you some clearance issues around the brace on top of the lowers if the bike was not designed for wide tyres. On my Rockshox Recon forks the XR4's rubbed with the slightest lateral movement and didn't leave enough clearance for small stones or mud. And boy do they pick up stones!

I'd suggest an XR3 if you decide to try the Bontragers.

whiskers's picture

Panaracer fire xcpro about $40 from you know where Smiling

aajay's picture

Interesting that you're asking about Kalamunda trails. I assume there's only one Kalamunda and it's in the perth hills? I've ridden all through there and every trail in the SW WA and have found that the maxxis ignitor is pretty hard to beat on pea gravel. It's also a pretty good front as well. I've found this tyre to be very ordinary in heavy clay trails as they don't shed mud very well. I've found them to be very durable with good wear rates. I've found that tyre pressure is more important when riding gravel and generally a lower tyre pressure will be better. This is my experience and could well be different for others.

hope this helps

pembo6's picture

Yep. Kalamunda. Perth hills. Lotsa pea gravel. I find the racing Ralph slips all over the place.

Unfortunately I am using tubes. So can't get the pressure very low or I get loads if pinch flats. Might need something. With tougher sidewalls, but that will be heavier.

aajay's picture

Get a stans tubeless conversion kit. It will be the best thing you'll ever do. I was doing most of my riding around collie and pile road and found that 25-28psi worked amazingly well(80kg rider). I ran a narrower tyre but low pressure and it out performed wide knobbly high pressure tyres every day of the week. The grip that low pressure provides over pea gravel is truly amazing. I ride with 26' crank brothers iodine wheels. They're tubeless ready with no spoke nipples going through the rim. Given the mass roll out of 29er's you could probably pick up some similar CB rims for quite cheap. I've belted my rims riding all mountain and they have stood up to the task very nicely and only replaced one spoke set in 4.5 years!

pembo6's picture

Unfortunately I dont get to ride as often as I would like. If the sealant sits in the tyre for a month, will it still work ok next time I ride?
Also, I'm not sure if my rims are ok for tubeless. Alex TD24.

GAZZA's picture

What pressures do you have in your tyres?

Greggo's picture

Sorry for shouting. But,I'm serious go tubeless.
Even if you only ride a couple of times a month. Just give the wheels a bit of a spin every now and then in the shed to keep the sealant moving in the tyre. Honestly, you won't go back once you've tried tubeless.

pembo6's picture

I don't 100% trust my pump gauge.
But I think about 35 front and back. But i keep getting pinch flats at the rear. I think due to thin sidewalls. But u don't want to go higher pressure because they already feel too hard.
Might consider going tubless if I can do it with my current rims. And the sealant is ok if I only hit the trails once a month.

GAZZA's picture

Like previous posts,
Go tubeless.
I run Racing Ralph's at 22psi, I go to Alice Springs a lot and there's pea gravel there but no worries.
Sydney has sharp nasty sandstone and no worries!
Once you get them set up you'll wonder how you ever managed with tubes.
The grip and reliability is unreal!

Cotic Tony's picture

I'm not sure what sort of riding you're doing, how big you are or what bike you have but I'd guess that with the Nic/Ralph combo it's something like a fast XC bike like an Anthem.
Personally I don't find the Ralph grips badly at all on the rear for a low knob race tyre but if you want more grip here are my favourite Kalamunda combinations at the moment.
All run tubeless of course.
Fat, grippy but fast:
1. Hans Dampf trailstar front / Rock Razor rear
2. Bontrager XR4 2.35 F Maxxis Icon 2.35 3C EXO rear
Others:
3. Maxxis high roller 2 front & rear. Grippy but a bit slow, put an Ardent or even a Crossmark on the back for more speed.
4. Ardent 2.25 EXO f & r. Tough but IMO can be inconsistent.

Additional:
The XR3 may look nice with the XR4 but in my opinion it is a no no on the front & only works adequately on the rear.
The Icon 2.35 3C EXO really is surprisingly good on the rear & deserves a fat but light front to compliment it. I'm waiting for Maxxis to make one.

As you already have a new Nic you could try a Rocket Ron on the back, it's between the Ralph & Nic. The Hans is far bigger than the Nic & would look silly on the rear but you could swap them.
A Nic on the back doesn't last long, if you ride those rocks hard you will rip the knobs off in no time.

All the best. T

pembo6's picture

What tubeless pressures to u run with those tyre combos?

Thanks.

MrMez's picture

For a rear AM tire on Kalamunda, a Nobby Nic in reverse is a good bet. Thats what I use at the moment.
Reversing the direction seems to push the pea gravel away from the tire, not towards it. There are also no 'gaps' between the lugs (unlike the next two), which means the grip is progressive as you lean. No 'dead spots' where things get a bit sketchy before they come good again.

High Roller II is good if you are really pinning it. Maybe it's just me but when I lock the rear with some lean it really slides out sideways, rather than straight. Great to get you pointing in the right direction when you learn to expect it.

Minion DHF is more a DH tire and probably gives a bit too much grip. Apart from upsetting the balance a little, the super tacky compound makes pedalling difficult.

Keep in mind most of the above come in a variety of sizes and flavours which could make them more or less suitable to your riding.

As for size, that depends on brand (all manufacturers lie/measure differently), riding style and weight. If your front NN is 2.25, I'd probably go the same on the rear, as 2.1 seems ridiculous for an AM tire.

As for tubeless... I've actually gone back to tubes.
I've had to keep upping my pressures to prevent the tire from collapsing when I pump or have a hard landing. Just so happens at that pressure I haven't hit anything hard enough to flat in the last 6 month.

jackthelad's picture

i run kenda tubeless nevegals.
2.1 front and rear, nice solid tyres,
if your not stressed about weight
you can pick up cheap as not the tyre of choice anymore

Muskboy's picture

+1 for ardent rear tubeless. great tyre..

Cotic Tony's picture

All of the tyres that I mentioned above work best for me between 22 & 30 psi.
With narrower rims, or if you're a bigger bloke you may find that you get a bit of squirming around when running at the lower end of this scale.
Tubes also beef up the carcass of the tyre a bit so the lower pressures may work best.

I would start at 24F & 28R & if you feel that you're being pinged off of roots & rocks etc reduce it down to, say 22 & 24 & see how it feels.

Oldernslower's picture

Whatever tyre combination you select is a compromise amongst: speed (rolling resistance) X grip X wear X tyre weight X terrain X riding style X skill X rim width X (insert anything you think is relevant). Lets call this lot the 'system'. What works for one rider may not work well for the next rider due to variations in their 'system', e.g. style. The variables are not independent but interact, so tyre choice is more a black art than science. I once asked an international elite how the hell he made the 2.1 Racing Ralph's he was using stick in our pea gravel, his answer was - he didn't, his compromise was that he worked out what was fastest over the course he was riding (based on experience and his sponsors offerings) and whilst RaRa's were a little slower in corners they more than made up for it in speed on the course. I can't ride RaRa's in pea gravel for crap (some would say my riding's crap anyway Sticking out tongue) so I choose different tyres.

Another issue is adaptation to the tyre, e.g. a tyre with poor transition into a corner and slides as you lean, may result in you pushing the bike over and through the transition phase faster to get the side knobs biting. You now stick a tyre on that has excellent transition but your style now has to adapt to that tyre. A further trap some fall into is replacing an old tyre with a different brand of new tyre - then marvel at the increased grip of the new tyre. Virtually any new tyre will be better than the worn out old unless it is utterly unsuited to the 'system'.

Another issue (of many), you go riding with a group and Furious Freda is faster than you, and she's using Brand X tyres. So you opt for brand X tyres. Problem is the variables are not the same for both of you. She is fitter, knows the course better, rides virtually nowhere else, has a lighter bike and is 20kg lighter and has a better power/weight ratio. If I selected tyres based on those who were quicker than me then I'd have to try every bloody tyre out there Sad. The opposite also occurs, Rocket Rhonda is slower than you and uses brand Z tyres, so you don't try them, yet you may be faster on them.

Most of the tyre combos recommended here are good. General rule, tyres that work on pea gravel have wider spaced and highish knobs, hence I don't recommend RaRa's on our coffee stone surface - having said that I'm using a tubeless RaRa 2.25 on the rear now just to wear it out, (with NN 2.35 on front reversed) - I'll replace the RaRa with a Specialized S-Works Ground Control 2.1 or 2.3 soon.

So over time you could try different tyres and work out what suits your style in what terrain over what distance, trouble is it is expensive. Keep a record of your performance on each tyre you use, I've got that going back some years, those of us who have raced motorcycles will know the importance of recording tyre data to optimise performance (assuming you want to optimise performance). Don't forget that faster does not mean much IF it is due to increased familiarity with the track/course.

One way of testing a tyre is comparing times over a set course - problem is the variables don't stay the same, but my fastest times over the past three years on various combinations of tyres, on every repeated course (as opposed to a segment, don't fall into that trap) on Strava is on tubeless Specialized S-Works Ground Controls 2.3 front and 2.1 rear at 23/25 psi, dry and dusty or dampish track. BUT I am easy on tyres, don't jump that much, don't hit things too hard (other than trees!), have a Watt/kg ratio of <1.8, and am older n'slower than most (all?) Smiling

So to reduce costs maybe select one of the suggested tyre combinations and stick with it unless you find it unsuitable. Other than that, set up a ride day with riding buddies with the same bike (or interchangeable wheels) who use different tyres and swap wheels (not bikes) just to taste the difference.

FWIW – AIWECYPFI

pembo6's picture

Thanks for the very informative posts everyone.
I ended up grabbing a tubeless conversion kit. Still deciding what rear tyre, but a mate just bought a second hand bike with specialized 'the captain' 2.2 wide front and back. They look like they will be great. And they are HUGE. Way larger than my 2.25 nobby nic.

Oldernslower's picture

Captain Control (CC) my third favourite rear tyre. Fastish rolling, reasonable side grip, bit of a slide in transition - so learnt to lay it over quicker. There are three Captains, S-works, Control and Sport. Sport is the heaviest @ about 730g for 2.2, Control is 670g for 2.2, S-Works The Captain 600g same size. Responds to tyre pressure changes well, the lower the better consistent with riding style and avoidance of damage. I'm 70kg and used 26psi any harder and it would tend to slip on steep loose climbs and lock up quickly on loose downhills, but that is with my 'unsmooth' pedal stroke and hamfisted brake style.

If you are going to buy these new (as opposed to use your mates) I would suggest you look at the Ground Control 26" x 2.3, 610g (S-Works = 580g far more $, but weaker sidewalls). The 2.1 GC is around 590g but too small for really hard AM riding IMO.

The other Spesh tyre for AM is the Purgatory 2.3, 685g - lots like them.

(welcome to the purgatory of tyre selection) Laughing out loud

Cotic Tony's picture

I forgot about the Specialized offerings.
Good tyres & reasonably priced, they were even offering a 90day no hassle return when I last looked.
I have a Purgatory/Captain combo on my 29er.

MrMez's picture

1.8W/kg...
Somebody get this man some EPO!

Agree about the need to try different tires.
In my 3 seasons of MTB I've tried 6 different tires, not including different size, compound and rotation direction. Just as important is the front/rear combination, of which iv'e tried almost every possible combo.

Oldernslower's picture

I find the Purgatory too heavy for my 1.8W/kg but it is a damn good tyre. Specialised tyres are underrated IMO, possibly because you can only get them from Spesh dealers.

Whoaa there MrMez -

Anyway 1.8W/kg is average power output for 4 hours, so there Sticking out tongue

And how the hell do you think a 68 year old got to 1.8W/kg - Training? Cycling?? No sir, by the judicial use of my 9 favorite virtual friends and favorite fitness exercise!
1.Erythropoietin (EPO)
2.Ephedra
3.Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1)
4.Artificial Oxygen Carriers
5.Adrenocorticotropic Hormone (ACTH)
6.Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG)
7.Amphetamines
8.Human Growth Hormone (hGH)
9.Prednisolone (bugga happiness I want euphoria!)
10.Sex (to be indulged in on the morning of the event or test!)

;)j/k

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