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Baiting & Trolls
Listen up people... I'm sure everyone is getting quiet sick of some of the name calling going on on a couple of heated threads in the forum.
Debate is good. Name calling and tit-for-tat bickering is not. If you want to do that stick to email or bugger off to where all the other kiddies hang out.
If you do not add value to a conversation expect that your posts will be deleted.
Just move along. Point taken?
P.S. There is no need for a whole bunch of 'Sorry, but...' replies here, and you can guess what will happen to any crying that is posted on this particular thread too!
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Help!!!
We're being repressed...
titling a thread calling people idiots then telling us no name calling is a tad hypocritical isnt it?
why not be a voice of reason instead. I mean all this crap has happened due to one thing - misuse of trails. I'm sure you have an opinion and could possibly help set a few people straight on the right thing to do?
cheers,
Sean.
It's a generic term and not aimed at anyone specific.
There are some nice comments in these threads. Then there are some that are just childish arguments. I'm sure by now everyone gets the idea so should just let it lie.
Totally in agreement with Rob. The thread on riding the dam in the wet got pretty silly. Quite a few responses got the *TROLL* alert flashing.
Perhaps, the title should be trolls. when you care more about baiting someone who responded than constructive debate / argument about the issues...
It's funny, on the other forums I moderate. This sort of thing happens all the time.
I put it down to the same phenominon that plagues society as a whole. The 10% idiot factor... It doesn't matter what or where people congregate, it's the same. I don't mean that the 10% are actually idiots, so please don't take that the wrong way. It's just the 10% usually don't conform with the general flow of the group. Whether it's being a joker, smart ass, all round funny guy. They all fit into the 10%.
Or, Like a mate of mine used to say. "There's a clown at every circus."
hahaha
Rob, all this name calling and bullying is just another example of why it is probably a good idea to document the “Acceptable Standards” for users on NOBMOB.
Site users have grown considerably and these users come from far and wide and cover a multitude of different backgrounds. I believe the time has comes that the NOBMOB community rules were written down and promulgated. This way everyone will know the rules.
Yes, I have raised this issue before in thread - http://nobmob.com/node/8386 (Stuart M banned?) where I volunteered to draft some Acceptable Standards and pass them onto others in the community for comment. This I have done and these draft Acceptable Standards cover issues such as:
* Derogatory comments about race, religion, disability, age, nationality, ethnicity, sex, etc.
* Abusive, hateful, threatening or bullying behaviour to other members.
* Profanity - the use of language not generally acceptable in the general community.
* Pornographic content.
While you were not very receptive when I forwarded this draft document to you on 23/5, it might be a good opportunity for you to resurrect my email and forward this document to a number of trusted NOBMOBers for their input. If need be I can send the original document to you again.
Given the tone of recent comments and the numbers of derogatory comments being thrown about by many users, I think documenting the Acceptable Standards for site behaviour is overdue and should be put to the members for a decision.
So much stuff these days getting waaay out of hand and threads becoming far to heated to be enjoyable anymore.
If we could get this posted as an official section that'd be great.
Cheers,
Loz
I'm with Paul.
Swearing has to stop. I can certainly swear with the best of them but doing so in print is unnecessary. If one feels that they need to swear for emphasis, replace it like this...f$%k you all, you're all... well you get the idea.
I'm certainly guilty of poking fun, teasing and winding certain people up. And for the most part, that sort of carry on amongst friends, those that we're a little bit chummy with and even a vague aquaintance is often ok.
Labelling someone an idiot, or other negative adjective, is not.
Remember, every single day a person will join the sport known as mtb. They're green about everything. So when they're happily pedalling around a muddy Manly Dam beaming with pride as they succeed in staying upright, not subscribed to the email alerts, not informed of the damage it causes, they hardly deserve to be hammered by us righteous lot. A gentle answer would be best.
People look here for information, not abuse.
The purpose of this site is;
for like minded folk to meet,
to share trail locations,
to share practical knowledge,
to form a loud voice to gain better land access,
to learn about trail etiquette which includes open/closed trails.
I think a code of conduct is a very important part of a public forum.
Delicious and Paul and your posts about sum it up, totally agree with you guys. I've already voiced my opinions regarding this subject in the Manly dam thread. So I won't go into it again.
I believe as a forum grows, the rules and guidlines have to adapt and evolve. Unfortunatly, due to the above mentioned 10% idiot factor (or should I call it 'clown factor'?) forums can not self moderate, and it would be unfair to solely leave that responsibility to one or two people to moderate and control a public forum. At least with a set of guidlines regarding basic conduct it would make the moderators jobs a whole lot easier.
much needed post, attitude or showing off by tearing others down is unwelcome here or anywhere for that matter, prove yourself on the trails.
Oh look, it's the same old faces stirring the pot. And as I answered in that thread you dragged up (yawn) - No.
Do you really think that someone who doesn't already know it's poor form to post personal abuse and keep to the subject at hand is really going to take notice of a page listing any rules?
I totally agree with having an acceptable use/standards policy, but be careful with such documents as many are left open ended and up to much interpretation.
A blanket ban on profanity won't work without a definition of what you mean by "profanity".
What is harrasment and what is friendly banter?
I reckon you should post an initial draft of a policy on a forum and give everyone the opportunity to give their input and then take the "best" of it.
Question: does any AUP apply to PM?
Be a responsible adult and treat others with respect and compassion?
That's about as far as I would go. More of a life rule really than one for a website, but again, I am with Rob here. This isn't kindergarten. The moderator isn't here to get his arse kicked for stuff people do on the site, nor cop abuse when people... aren't responsible adults.
All Rob is asking is don't treat this place like you have an internet identity and can do anything you like...
I support Rob in not allowing the site to be de-railed into this 'rationalist' point of view where everything has to be justified to the millionth degree and the site turns into hard work and hours a day of rule debating.... not going to happen. Then it's not about MTBing anymore but about the site....
Edit: you know what this is? the winter blues. Too much time inside. Get out and ride
isnt it? so we get all the different varieties in the community. Welcome one and all!
This should be the ultimate praise for the site, that it has now reached beyond the infant stage and is now truly public reaching far and wide.
Being an adult is like having common sense.. when I am one I will probably have the other.
Being an adult on a public forum would suggest that you exercise common sense and NOT get involved in stupid comments, baiting, trolling, name calling and so on. Yep not very likely....
As many people have done, just ignore it.... simple. By having yet another online bitch session it only fuels the issue further and drags the officialdom in with comments unlikely to please all and yes you guessed it, fuel more debate. Like calling people idiots, the "familiar faces"??? what the??
Some people sit at home and thrive on web banter and name calling and the internet and public forums are their social life. Thats the way it goes we all know this, so lets move on.
The site is hard work and a full time job for the mod I am sure, and with the wider community taking part in all conversations
only likely to me more labour intensive to weed out what might not be suitable.
If it were a club, the constitution could be set up any which way and have all sorts of rules and regulations regarding membership and behaviour. To be a member you might be recommended by 2 members (if there was 2 members), not ride huffy's or cannondales... and so on.. a membership fee would go towards running the site and feeding the committee beer on meeting nights... you get the drift. But as this is purely a web forum, where all are welcomed, we must embrace the cross section of the community, pass better judgement, and deal with all the left and right field comments.
Fair dinkum.....
If we have a high level acceptable use policy, we will have clear guidelines to refer to for moderation.
and for example, consider what we hear on free to air tv these days.
This would be a reference that can be referred to when someone has been 'moderated'.
I see this as a useful defuser when someone gets heated or upset about being moderated due to what is currently most likely a subjective policy. It also protects the moderator/s from recrimination.
I agree with comments like Paul's that it doesn't have to be extensive, just simple and take into account respect of gender, race, ethnicity and some level of integrity.
I don't believe it needs to preclude profanity as long as it is not disrespectful. Colorful language can be entertaining at times
For me, this is a real community, and I want to preserve it for all the good it does: the friendship, knowledge sharing, education and what is becoming (whether we like it or not), a respected role and leadership position throughout the greater cycling community.
Whisperer
I have sent you an email to the address on your profile to answer your question.
Cheers
The Old Fart
If the same activity and effort went into organising new rides, instead of these long threads and idle chit chat - we would all have a bunch of stuff to choose from each weekend.
I guess now that I have posted this, I should pop a ride up for the weekend now.
Benny
Rob
It’s not fair that you cop all the shit for being “the” moderator, that’s why I support Paul’s draft proposal recommending yourself and four other moderators being voted in. (or something like that)
That way if comments or threads get pulled it is a collective of members (NoBMoB) making the call and sharing any grief not just you (RoBMoB) all the time.
Having yourself and other elected moderators’ makes a lot of sense then you can stop feeling like you’re the bad guy, which is obviously getting you down.
Your outstanding MTB community lobbying shouldn’t be slowed down by you alone feeling you have to monitor the site 24/7 looking for stupid comments, it’s time to share the dirty work.
Thanks Rob,
Greg (pikey)
Long standing members seems best
I put a vote towards Pikey.
If any moderators are ever assigned here, it certainly won't be via a vote!
Pikey. Sorry mate
You're banned until you grow your beard back
“All men are created Equal, but some are more Equal than others”
Rob, I raised the issue of “Acceptable Standards” of behaviour for the site following another round of sub-standard and abusive behaviour in posts from many parties. Yes I have done this before and like last time there is plenty of on-line and private support and also like last time you refused to even consider letting the members having a say.
All I am suggesting is tabling a draft document that the Nobmob community as a whole can look at and comment on. I want the members to voice their opinion on what is acceptable and what is not and once we have a final document the members can decide on whether to accept or reject it – all very democratic.
The site has grown up, it is multi-cultural and it’s probably much more diverse than Justin and you ever imagined – the old days have gone, so some of the old ways should go as well, I believe the “Acceptable Standards” are just part of the site evolving and growing.
Rob just so you are pre-warned, later tonight I will create a general forum and post these draft “Acceptable Standards” so the members can have their say. I would appreciate your feedback and that of anyone else who feels inclined.
I think what Rob wrote above will do. And Paul, look up godwin a thread as a concept. You came mighty close there...
Give me a break. We will not have an AUP for the numerous reasons already mentioned.
If anyone posts an AUP, draft, discussion of what it 'might' look like or anything else I will have no option but to pull it, lest it be accidentally mistaken for an official one. If I suspect you have read this message and posted it all the same you will also be banned.
Yet again the 'long standing members' have proven not only are they unable to respect what is a community service they use for free, they seem bent on discrediting it through arguments like this.
I know a forum's most valued asset should be it's members, and really do appreciate the majority of members, the support we have and how the site has grown. The events of last week really show what can be achieved when riders put up a united front and don't bicker between themselves.
However, I do not appreciate those people who think just because they have been using this service for longer than most that they have some claim on it's ownership or right of control.
It's late on a Friday arvo and I wish you all a merry weekend of bike riding ahead. So let's all look forward to that and forget all this nonsense please.